Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
So our little guy, now 13 months old, is on his 5th UTI. The first one landed him in the hospital for two nights at 2 1/2 months old. He is uncircumcised, which is the way that we want to keep him. But, our pediatrician (who we feel akin to) is now recommending that we circumcise. She says that there is no conclusive research to say that it will help, but that it is a 50/50 chance.
He's had a VCUG to test for reflux (urine from his bladder going north up to his kidneys) but there was no reflux or structural abnormalities. Recurrent UTIs can cause kidney scarring, which can lead to bigger problems now and later, including high blood pressure. We don't want to cause problems for him. But will anything solve the problem?
Does anyone have any experience with recurrent UTIs, or even just with circumcising a 1 year old? Ugh. I cringe to think about it.
Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.
--John
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
My immediate answer is NO.
The penis has a foreskin for a reason: to protect it.
I persons body is "designed" to be bathed/washed every day. Whilst urine etc may get behind the penis and the foreskin, that should be cleaned away each evening when the baby is bathed: come to that us adults too.
The foreskin is retractable of a reason:
a) so that the Glans of the penis can be exposed to the air so that infection cannot invade it.
b) That an any air-borne contmaninats can be washed away before they become a problem.
C) When the foreskin encloses the glans of the penis any of the urine which may become
trapped behind the foreskin, glans and shaft of the penis; carry their own aniti-bodies
which prevent infection.
The main reason for circumsiition is for religious rituals as opposed to any medical grounds.
Female circumcision; i.e. the removal of the clitoris is more to do with male domination and the assumption that a woman is there purely to reproduce and not be allowed sexual pleasure is more to do with control than actual medical evidence. Contrary to popular belief babies DO feel pain. And cutting away their fore-skin or clitoris with a knife or scalpel IS painful. Why do you think the baby cries?
Oh, I see he/she is crying out the Devil?
Rubbish: it is to do with ritualists waniting to exert their domination of ignorant peasants who will accept anything which will comply with those to whom they Kow-Tow.
No, this has nothing to do with good and evil, but more to do with creating control by pain. I notice from the publisher's statement that the (female) "expert" is asserting that the urine wil go "North in to his bladder and Kidneys" is absolute rubbish. Water/urine is gravity biased: it will always fall away to the ground. What is this idiot of a "doctor" talking about?
It is to do with control and making sure that a person does not enjoy sex. According to the Religious Sects, sex is there to reproduce only= make babies. Even children are not allowed to "explore" themselves as they are deemed to be mentally retarded if they do. Again adjudged by a group of people who want to control and manipultate a deliberately dumbed down subordination.
God [sic] those people are bloody dangerous!
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
Everybody has their own opinion regarding circumcision and I truly believe both sides of the argument should be respected. Honestly, its just different choices for different people. I have heard of recurring UTI's in uncircumcised males before, but if it truly is due to being uncircumcised is really unknown. I feel for your situation and hope you are able to find the answers that will help your son. UTI's can be so painful.
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
Your doctor suggests circumcision, and you are not sure. How about a smaller change and an equal chance to eliminate the UTIs? I grew up with repeated UTIs and asked my parents for a circ when I was old enough to. They said no, and I suffered years longer before I got mine as an adult. But you can consider a minimal circ, which removes only the floppy tip of the foreskin and keeps the urethral opening clear to the outside. For all purposes it looks, functions and feels like regular intact, and if the UTIs are related to the foreskin, this should be enough to stop them. If not, you haven't given up that much. My guess is that only the most serious UTIs and other penile infections get any medical attention at all. My sons all have minimal circs and have been without any problems. Have the doctor use an anesthetic for pain, and it should heal in only days. Good chance the UTIs will stop. It also eliminates ballooning of the foreskin and so other infections, and reduces wild spraying. If this works and you have other sons in the future, consider the mini circ for them also!
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
My son and I both had the procedure a day or so after birth and do not remember it. Not being circumcised does not equal a medical issue, but the possibility is there. I have a friend who had an issue when he was 21 and he certainly remembers getting circumcised.
Cheers,
Toby
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
Yes, by all means end his suffering! Here are some links for more information...
http://www.circinfo.net/summary.html
http://www.medicirc.org/meditopics/medicirc_topics.html
http://www.circumcisioninfo.com/circ_record.html
http://malecircumcision.org/
Male infant circumcision has been proven to provide a 12 fold reduction in urinary tract infections, 22 fold reduction in invasive penile cancer, elimination of medical issues localized to the foreskin, provide a much less favorable environment for pathogens to create infections, greatly increases penile hygiene and greatly decreases chances of infection by various STDs including HIV (although it should be noted that a physical barrier such as a condom should still be used for greater primary & birth control purposes).
Circumcision offers a lifetime of health, medical and sexual benefits. At least one third of uncircumcised males will develop a condition requiring medical intervention. This means degrees of suffering and possibly death. In contrast, circumcision can prevent or greatly reduce the risk of these medical conditions. The surgical risk with a modern circumcision is extremely low, while the life-long appearance & functional outcomes are excellent. Male circumcision also offer considerable medical and sexual benefits to a female partner by reducing her risk of suffering, disease, medical treatment and premature death.
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
First of all I am sorry to hear about your little one, no kid should ever stay hospitalized. Unfortunately reality is different... Secondly I think you should listen to your doctor, you have 50% chances on your side and this could end all the pain for your baby. You can also check for a solution that could help you get rid of UTI in 24 hours.
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
It is possible that a large number of UTIs in intact boys in the US are caused by improper care of the intact penis, i.e., that the difference, if any, between the UTI incidence in intact boys and circumcised boys would be much smaller than has been observed in US studies if physicians and parents knew how to care for the intact penis. If we assume that 50% of the UTIs observed in intact males in the study were caused by improper care, and, if circumcision reduces UTI incidence by 80%, we can calculate that
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
I believe a doctor would be a better source for medical advice than non-medical people who may or may not have agendas. You and your spouse want to do what is best for your son. You will just get conflicting viewpoints the more you ask.
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
Yes, agreed anyone should ask their doctor, but keep in mind doctors are human and can have biases as well.
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
They say we don't need our appendix, but people don't go around getting their appendixes removed routinely just because they might get appendicitis, now do they? If a person is clean, they'll wash there like anywhere else on their body that could harbor odor after a period of not washing. Vagina's produce smegma, and they can smell too if not washed, but we don't go around chopping off bits of labia. I'm not saying a person shouldn't do it if they so wish, but that people need to stop automatically circumcising their sons based on the "I wan't him to look like daddy," "He'll be teased in the locker room," and "It looks better" reasons.
Re: Should we circumcise him? Recurrent UTIs!
Don't do it ,unless there's a reason for it. e.g,religion,etc. Later if he decides to do it then he can.
We were in the exact same situation
We were in the exact same situation as you with our second son. He was on his 4th UTI and had been on prophylactic antibiotics for 3 1/2 months (and he was only 4 months old). LIke your son, the tests for kidney reflux came back clear, but he kept getting infections. We decided to go ahead with circumcision. My son is now almost 4, and we have not had another UTI since. It was a difficult decision to make, especially as our older son was not circumcised, and they are now different to each other, but ultimately we needed to try it because he was just so sick and was getting more and more resistant to the antibiotics. He was losing weight, and not thriving. Best decision we ever made. Good luck with yours.
Personal Choice not Medical
While there is some research that seems to indicate a higher incidence of infection for non-circumcised males, this can mostly be prevented with good hygiene (not to say that you are not doing this now.) You also don't forcibly pull back the foreskin in babies to clean. It will release on it's own and the baby grows.
I am an intact male, almost 40 and have never had a UTI or been the subject or any ridicule regarding my intact foreskin.
This is a very personaly/cultural choice that parents make for their children.
My suggestion is to consider your personal values and beliefs and stick to them.
50/50% is just saying maybe it'll help and maybe it won't. Keep asking your doctor for other alternatives.
The Norm?
I keep reading how most people refer to circumcision as "The Norm", but is it really. sure i guess most guys have recieved the snip but the trend to not circumcise is on the rise, in my opinion it's becasue of the cost. i just had a son and the circ itself cost us around $500. was it worth it? absolutely. i have known many a guys who has not had it done and listening to their stories of locker room ridicule and being called names such as "snuffaluffagus" and "anteater" makes the decision all to easy to have it done to all my sone. where i live in eastern idaho there are actually more parents choosing not have it done, so i guess here it is not "The Norm" but parents, do your kids a favor, don't think about the cost, think about their mental stability, get the snip, they'll thank you in the long run!!!
I don't know what you're
I don't know what you're talking about. As an intact guy living in the US I have never had anyone make a disparaging or sophomoric comment like that. Considering the information now readily available on the Internet, the fact that some people are circumcised and some people are not will be well known. Sure perhaps in times past, most people didn't know anything about circumcision. And if this whole lockeroom B.S. ever did happen in the past, though my experience says it didn't, I can assure you those days are over. Despite being in the minority, I never regretted that my parents didn't circumcise me and nobody else I knew who was intact regretted it. In fact, when I found out what it was I thanked them and would never consider it for myself. Parents in the past can in part be forgiven for circumcising their sons but now, knowing that it is non-therapeutic parents who circumcise today might have some explaining to do. That is a decision that can never be reversed.
wow! looks like you've hit
wow! looks like you've hit a sensitive spot with this question! we had our son circumcised - I've only heard good things about circumcision, but I guess that's what happens with research - you tend to focus on the results that you want to find.
Unless you feel that there is something morally wrong with it, I'd follow the doctor's suggestion.
www.tylermitchell.com
www.twitter.com/tylermitchell
You have to live like no one else.
An Answer For Tony
Tony Said: "Wow, I didn't realize there was so much data in support of not circumcising. I also talked with some OB-GYNs who confirmed that there is "no real medical reason" for circumcision."
Tony Asked: "So, with such compelling data, why is the practice represent the norm?"
Actually, it only represents the norm in the US. No other countries practice non-therapeutic infant circumcision on the scale that we do. Circumcision is practically unheard of in Europe, Non-Muslim Asia, South and Central America among other places. It has become recently rare in Australia and Canada. It represents the norm because most people in the US still believe there is some substantial benefit and by and large American doctors don't seem inclined to truly educate the public with regard to this issue. It seems they try and feel out what your opinion is and the 'support' it without rocking the boat so to speak. If you ask directly, as you did, you get the correct answer. From my observation it also seems to be the case that many US doctors don't practice conservative treatment when it comes to intact boys. Hence John's post.
Does this deserve more attention?
Yes. I, and many other, believe this issue deserve a lot more attention. If you're interested visit www.nocirc.org www.cirp.org or www.circumstitions.com One good way to give the issue more attention, in my opinion, is discussing it on blogs like this.
To the OP: John originally, I mentioned you should ask what the Dr. would do if he was a girl. Perhaps it is more fitting to ask if he was circumcised what would the next step be?
wow - I had no idea
Wow, I didn't realize there was so much data in support of not circumcising. I also talked with some OB-GYNs who confirmed that there is "no real medical reason" for circumcision. So, with such compelling data, why is the practice represent the norm? does this deserve more attention?
John - have you thought about getting a 2nd opinion from a pediatric urologist?
>> So, with such compelling
>> So, with such compelling data, why is the practice represent the norm? <<
In my opinion, ignorance and both religious and (old) scientific dogma.
A fascinating and in-your-face look at circumcision is the "Circumcision is Bullsh*t" episode of Penn and Teller's funny and informative show "Bullsh*t":
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMlofscJjmQ
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1NbfRzHv74
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FflqYpzYzjc
Don't do it. Ask your doctor
Don't do it. Ask your doctor this -- if this were your daughter who'd had 5 UTIs, what parts of her genitals would the doctor recommend removing? Given that girls get UTIs at approximately three times the rate that boys do, this is a fair question to ask. Tell your doctor to pretend that your child is a girl and then recommend an appropriate course of action to determine the cause(s) of the UTIs and the appropriate treatment(s). Boys don't have disposable genital parts any more than girls do. All of the parts of the penis are highly sensitive and necessary to normal sexual functioning, just as in girls.
Perhaps a second opinion from a doctor better-versed in the scientific literature on the fallacious connection between circumcision and UTI prevention, not to mention the appropriate diagnosis and treatment of UTIs in either gender, is in order.
Best of luck to you and your intact son.
If your doctor is so
If your doctor is so ignorant about intact penis and circ issues, I bet s/he is the one who is most likely responsable for your son's problems. Does this doctor ever retract (pull back) your son's foreskin at well being check ups? Foresking should never be retracted in babies and young boys by anyone (but the boy himself) and but many doctors just can't keep their hands off baby's penises causing them infections, scar tissue groth, nerve damage due to foresful premature retractions. Please read this post:
A Warning For Parents of Intact Sons
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=129378
and this one:
The Definition of "Retraction" & Why it is BAD
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=575627
Check deeper in the body for the problem
Should you circumcise him? Of course not! I'd check deeper in kidney reflux disease, or any kind of bubble bath solutions you might be using. Allergies might be something, too. But to circumcise him when you only got a 50% chance and no guarantee could prove to be a costly mistake... especially if/when the UTIs return. Have you or any doctors been retracting him, because forced retraction is an unnecessary thin that can only cause harm than do good. The average age for a boy to become retractable is 10 (source: NOCIRC March 2008 newsletter) and the *only* person that should be doing the retraction is the OWNER of the penis (your son!), but at a much later age. If a *girl* had 5 UTIs, nobody would suggest cutting off a piece of HER genitals. I'd look deeper into any issues w/ the kidneys. Best of luck to you!
Circumcision for UTI?
What is the offending organism? That should give you a clue as to why the boy keeps getting UTIs. Since your son's urinary tract is normal, we need to figure out what is causing the infections. It's not the foreskin.
As others have said, and for all the reasons you kept your son intact in the first place, it's not a good idea to circumcise a baby.
I'll be happy to work with you on this. You can call me at 415-488-9883.
Sincerely,
Marilyn
Marilyn Fayre Milos, RN, Executive Director
National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers
www.nocirc.org
Usually, recurrent UTI is
Usually, recurrent UTI is due to a congenital abnormality but you said he was tested for that. I think this link would be helpful for you:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/
You might also contact N.O.C.I.R.C (www.nocirc.org) or D.O.C. (www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org) they can provide referrals to 'foreskin' friendly Doctors for a second opinion on treatment. You might also ask how they would treat a girl with a similar condition. And I just noticed that the poster before me gave you the CIRP link.
I'd give anything
I'd give anything to be able to go back in time and shake my mom and tell her protect me from doctors who would amputate my normal body parts. 95% of the non-Muslim world does not circumcise.
The studies linking circumcision to protection from UTI seem to all share some serious flaws. In one case it has been determined that the uncut kids were being forcibly retracted and "cleaned" by hospital staff, which interferes with the natural immune system. Only the owner should EVER retract a foreskin. If he's not old enough to do it himself, he's not old enough to have it retracted. HANDS OFF, Doctor! Sterile urine leaving the body flushes the area inside the foreskin and restores it to the natural ph balance.
Other studies were found to be biased by the population selection. The intact kids were more likely to be premies with higher general level of health and nutrition problems, because premies are not eligible for neonatal circumcision.
All over the world, most people are intact and medical people view amputation as an absolute last resort.
There is a good article
There is a good article here, discussing the scholarly work linking circumcision to UTI. Neither the AAP nor the NIH recommend it as a prophylaxis, and the glans actually contains antimicrobial compounds. Breastfeeding seem to be the best thing, but if he's weened, maybe cranberry juice can help?
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